Q: Upgrade water pump with new heat exchanger?

[jasher0007]

I need help deciding what’s best for my car. I have a 2005 saleen S281 SC. I purchased a steeda heat exchanger in place of the stock exchanger. The size is of the steeda is huge when compared to stock. The question I have is about the stock water pump. Should I use the stock water pump, or should I go with a larger one? Any help would be appreciated. If I need to go with a bigger water pump, then could you guys follow up with why? Thanks

[tbar]

I have the Afco heat exchanger.The stock pump works fine for me.

[OneQwkStang]

Gords Heat Exchanger http://www.gordsfordperformance.com/ with a Meziere pump http://www.meziere.com/

[RedFire281]

The Steeda H/E is a single pass and not as restrictive as a dual pass like the AFCO. As such, if you're using the stock reservoir, then IMO, the stock water pump is good for street applications (Unless you're short tracking the car). With the small shampoo bottle reservoir, a higher flowing water pump might pass the coolant too quickly through the H/E before it can efficiently cool the fluid. I'd say stay with the stock water pump.

[FR500GT]

Running the AFCO unit here as well

[jasher0007]

I am not racing or short tracking the car. Is anyone running the steeda unit on their car?

[tbrock]

Running an afco unit with a larger intercooler tank which does a great job when I track my car. I know the saleen upgraded heat exchanger uses a higher flow pump. There is a great thread on the s197 forum about the idea of a larger heat exchanger and a higher flowing intercooler pump. I also upgraded to the new 6.5 lid which relocates the IAT sending unit which gives a more consistent reading keeping the ecu from pulling timing.

[jasher0007]

T Brock, do you have the link. What tank did you go with, and are running a larger pump? I have the saleen supershaker kit on the car. Have the entire space where the air lid was located.

[tbrock]

Originally Posted by jasher0007

T Brock, do you have the link. What tank did you go with, and are running a larger pump? I have the saleen supershaker kit on the car. Have the entire space where the air lid was located.

Here is the link to the thread http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52701
Currently I'm running a modified Canton GT500 IC tank where my power steering tank used to be and I relocated the PS tank to the drivers side strut tower on a bracket. I attached my stock intercooler pump to the bracket on the AFCO heat exchanger. After driving the car hard at track events and not seeing a huge increase in IA Temps I decided against the Meizer pump which you can get from Steeda for $200. Later this spring I am going to switch to this tank by Lethal http://www.lethalperformance.com/05-...ervoir-p-33763
as I am running the JLT 110mm MAF/CAI and I have sufficient room for it. I'll try to grab a picture here in a few to post.

[OneQwkStang]

tbrock, what kinda IAT's are you getting, say normal driving on a hot summer day and track days?
I am running a 3.2 pulley too, kinda interested.

[tbrock]

When I had the old lid on around town it would stay around 110 degrees (summer time 90+ weather) and then go up from that point when getting into the boost. After a few WOT runs it would stay at 125 or higher until I drove around to cool it off. Now around town it barely registers and even in the boost it stays around 100-110 and drops very quickly. The new lid and subsequent relocation of the IA sensor really changes what I see on my gauge. The old system seemed to read the temp all the time and now it seems the sensor only really reads the temp when you are in boost. Certainly keeps the ECU from pulling the timing due to heat soak. I think the oversize IC tank and AFCO's extra capacity really aid in keeping the temps down.

[Jason @ 281m]

Ok so here's some basic suggestions on HE and Pumps.

If your running a non-fanned AFCO (smaller core - about twice the size of a standard Saleen HE) you really dont need a better pump.

If your running a fanned AFCO unit (larger core - about 3 times the size of a standard Saleen HE) then you really should run a Meziere inline pump.

The 6gpm flow rate of the Bosch pump used on the Saleen's, Ford lighnting and I believe the Terminator Cobra, works fine on a smaller core. But once you drastically increase the fluid capacity of the cooling system, you will see the flow rate drop even more. This is especially true in AFCO's dual pass systems. Other brands dont use the better dual pass systems and are not as effecient in cooling the tempuratures.

To answer the original question, the Steeda unit is not a dual pass unit and as long as your pump is in good condition flowing the proper rate, you should be fine. I strongly recommend that anyone going to purchase a HE, to get an AFCO, or atleast a dual pass.

[OneQwkStang]

GORDS HE Specs.

Quality, Fit and Function. When looking to purchase a replacement heat exchanger, quality and fit is extremely important. Having to modify your vehicles' front-end structure can reduce structural integrity and lower the value of your car. The GordsFord Heat Exchanger was designed to fit in the stock location without modification of the factory bumper and retains the angle "L" brace- which is designed to protect the under-carriage and cooling assemblies. The GordsFord Heat Exchanger utilizes the most open space of any aftermarket heat exchanger. Combine the largest frontal area with an optimal core depth of 2.375", the GordsFord unit attains the largest cooling volume and effectiveness.

Stock HE Fluidyne Xtreme AFCO GordsFord OverAll Dimensions Horizontal Length (in.) 26 21.5 29 26.5 31 Vertical Depth (in.) 6 6.5 6 6 6.5 Thickness (in.) 1.2 3.25 2.5 2.5 2.45 Core Dimensions Horizontal Length (in.) 22.5 18 25.5 24 27.5 Vertical Depth (in.) 6 6.5 6 5.125 6.5 Thickness (in.) 1.2 3.25 2.375 2.375 2.375 Area (sq. in.) 135 117 153 144 184.25 Effective open area Horizontal Length (in.) 22.5 18 25.5 24 27.5 Vertical Depth (in.) 5.5 5.625 5.375 5.125 6 Area (sq. in.) 123.75 101.25 137.10 123 135 Volume (cu. in.) 143.6 255.7 277.6 249 331.7 Effective Capacity Cooling Ratio 1.0 1.78 1.93 1.73 2.31 Fit and Finish Hidden End Tanks No No No No Yes Stock Mountings Yes Yes No Yes Yes Fan Kit/Wiring Kit No No Optional No Optional Colors Black Alum w/Logo Alum/Blk Alum Alu/Blk/Logo Retain Protective "L" Brace Yes Yes No Yes Yes Protective Screen No No No No Optional All Fittings/Connections N/A No No No Yes

Note: All measurments were taken from actual production units using the same standard of measurment between units. Track results will be made available soon once the heat of summer allows proper heatsoak conditions to validate any tests.

[Jason @ 281m]

I noticed they left out the AFCO twin fanned unit, which is a staggering 26.5 x 12 x 2.5 for a total of 318sq inches of cooling. Then equip it with twin 10" SPAL fans and the cooling efforts "blow" the compitition away!

Originally Posted by OneQwkStang

GORDS HE Specs.

[jasaleen0718]

Well, I found all this info to late. Trying to make desision, I ended up getting the Saleen Mod upgrade with pump. I dont beleive they offer a larger tank. Does anyone know where I can find one that will mount where the stock Saleen tank is. Cant put the tank Afco offers as I think power stearing tank is mounted where they show it on the GT500 vid they made. Any help appreciated..

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by jasaleen0718

Well, I found all this info to late. Trying to make desision, I ended up getting the Saleen Mod upgrade with pump. I dont beleive they offer a larger tank. Does anyone know where I can find one that will mount where the stock Saleen tank is. Cant put the tank Afco offers as I think power stearing tank is mounted where they show it on the GT500 vid they made. Any help appreciated..

We have located them in lots of different locations. Where did you want your tank to be?

[jasaleen0718]

I would like to put it where the stock one is if possible. Where else have you put them and how much bigger are they than stock. It seems I have no place to put it up front.

[tbrock]

Originally Posted by jasaleen0718

Well, I found all this info to late. Trying to make desision, I ended up getting the Saleen Mod upgrade with pump. I dont beleive they offer a larger tank. Does anyone know where I can find one that will mount where the stock Saleen tank is. Cant put the tank Afco offers as I think power stearing tank is mounted where they show it on the GT500 vid they made. Any help appreciated..

JPC has a nice tank that replace the stock tank.

[tbar]

JPC Racing has a large tank that goes in the stock location.

[RedFire281]

Originally Posted by jasaleen0718

I would like to put it where the stock one is if possible. Where else have you put them and how much bigger are they than stock. It seems I have no place to put it up front.

You mean something like this?

http://store.jpcracing.com/JPC-Racin...ck_p_1708.html

[Jason @ 281m]

I don't recommend putting an aluminum tank where you phyisically trap heat from the headers between the inner fender and the valve cover. You might as well sit it on a burner. The fittment between the valve cover and the fender is so tight it rubs on both sides. Ask barricade, we encountered this issue when we installed his. Your better off with the stock tank.

If you want a better solution, Moroso makes one that sits in the battery tray. http://www.281motorsports.com/produc...roducts_id=902 and you get the benefit of putting the battery in the trunk giving you better weight distribution.

You could always relocate the PCM and fuse box and we custom build them for that spot! Lol

[jasher0007]

Jason, I am running a supershaker--so I have the room where the stock air box would set.

[Gray is Grey]

Originally Posted by jasher0007

Jason, I am running a supershaker--so I have the room where the stock air box would set.

Does your momma still tuck you in at night?

http://www.281motorsports.com/produc...oducts_id=2230

Search engines are amazing!

[OneQwkStang]

Originally Posted by gray is grey

does your momma still tuck you in at night?

lol.........

[jasher0007]

I like that setup. Thanks Grey _Grey.

Jason What comes with this kit?

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by Gray is Grey

Does your momma still tuck you in at night?

http://www.281motorsports.com/produc...oducts_id=2230

Search engines are amazing!

lol!

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by jasher0007

I like that setup. Thanks Grey _Grey.

Jason What comes with this kit?

The tank and the kit comes complete with hoses and fittings.

[jasher0007]

Sounds good Jason. I will call you at your shop tomorrow.

[Jon]

Accidentally posted twice, see next post

[Jon]

Originally Posted by jasher0007

I am not racing or short tracking the car. Is anyone running the steeda unit on their car?

I'm running the Steeda H/E and have been for 3 1/2 yrs and 40k + miles, I live in Orlando where the summers are brutal and average temps on a 90+ degree day with the a/c on is usually between 115-130 and I have NEVER seen it above 140.... Also I sent you a PM regarding the 4.10 gears I'm selling... Hope this helps

[jasher0007]

Are you using the stock water pump?

[Meikol02]

Hey Barricade got his picture on the JPC website! (the black tank picture)

[Barricade]

Huh? I did??

[Jeepngli]

For anyone with the AFCO heat exchanger, is it directly bolt in for our saleens? I mean no modifications? I'm looking at the non-fan AFCO exchanger. Thanks!

[tbar]

Originally Posted by Jeepngli

For anyone with the AFCO heat exchanger, is it directly bolt in for our saleens? I mean no modifications? I'm looking at the non-fan AFCO exchanger. Thanks!

direct bolt in , simple install

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by Jeepngli

For anyone with the AFCO heat exchanger, is it directly bolt in for our saleens? I mean no modifications? I'm looking at the non-fan AFCO exchanger. Thanks!

It will take you more time to drain the coolant I think!

Remove hoses / drain
Un-bolt
bolt
attach hoses
prime, refill and clear out air pockets.

Id say about 45-60 mins if you take your time.

[FR500GT]

Originally Posted by Jeepngli

For anyone with the AFCO heat exchanger, is it directly bolt in for our saleens? I mean no modifications? I'm looking at the non-fan AFCO exchanger. Thanks!

Is it easy to do? YES

Is it a "direct" bolt on? No
(You will have to re-route the 2 attaching hoses and they dont come with the heat exchanger. Its easy though; you just need two 3/4" 90 degree hoses for the pump side and one 3/4"straight hose for the other side)

All in all, the install is very easy to do. Everything is very straight forward and once you pull the front bumper off the install takes less than an hour! The best part is that your SC will run much cooler now...oh and your Saleen will look a lot more aggressive coming up behind someone

[Jeepngli]

Sweet. i plan to do the exchange in the summer. right now im just going to do the jpc tank. silly question, but whats the best way to drain the coolant our of the intercooler system? is there a drain plug on it?

thanks guys. i made 411hp on 5lbs so id like to keep what little power i have in the summer when my temps are rising.

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by FR500GT

Is it easy to do? YES

Is it a "direct" bolt on? No
(You will have to re-route the 2 attaching hoses and they dont come with the heat exchanger. Its easy though; you just need two 3/4" 90 degree hoses for the pump side and one 3/4"straight hose for the other side)

All in all, the install is very easy to do. Everything is very straight forward and once you pull the front bumper off the install takes less than an hour! The best part is that your SC will run much cooler now...oh and your Saleen will look a lot more aggressive coming up behind someone

You need to work for us!

Originally Posted by Jeepngli

Sweet. i plan to do the exchange in the summer. right now im just going to do the jpc tank. silly question, but whats the best way to drain the coolant our of the intercooler system? is there a drain plug on it?

thanks guys. i made 411hp on 5lbs so id like to keep what little power i have in the summer when my temps are rising.

I would consider "not" doing this.

[Jeepngli]

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m

You need to work for us!



I would consider "not" doing this.

Why do you say that? i am slowly building the car up and plan to keep the blower. id like to have the supporting mods there for when i up the boost. what is your reasoning?

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by Jeepngli

Why do you say that? i am slowly building the car up and plan to keep the blower. id like to have the supporting mods there for when i up the boost. what is your reasoning?

Please see post 21 on this thread.

[Jeepngli]

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m

Please see post 21 on this thread.

But realistically, whether its near the valve cover or where the battery is, any engine compartment with headers is going to be pretty hot. It may take longer to heat up, but I'm sure an aluminum tank even where the battery is will get cooked pretty good. Do you disagree? The only real safe solution is to put the tank itself in the trunk.

I'm just saying the stock beer can is pretty small and while it may not conduct as fast as the aluminum, once it does get up to temp its going to act like an insulator and try to keep heat in. On the other hand, the aluminum will heat up, yes. But aluminum will also dissipate the heat faster, like a heat sink. I dunno.

[Jason @ 281m]

It literally traps the heat. You will see what I'm saying when you install it. The battery tank gets cover by the poly plastic battery tray.

[Jeepngli]

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m

It literally traps the heat. You will see what I'm saying when you install it. The battery tank gets cover by the poly plastic battery tray.

So would you recommend just doing the AFCO exchanger and keep my beer can? I don't want to relocate the battery, thats why thats out for now.

[FR500GT]

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m

You need to work for us!

haha let me know if you're serious. Im currently the Ast. Manager at the shop but I'm ready for a change!

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by FR500GT

haha let me know if you're serious. Im currently the Ast. Manager at the shop but I'm ready for a change!

Send me a resume ASAP!

[redruder]

How about relocating the windshield fluid reservoir and putting a larger tank there. It would have incoming air passing over it to help cool things off and keep it out of the hot engine bay. It would just be a matter of having a fill tube welded on that runs up to a workable location.

[ERdoc]

Can somebody tell me the part number of the Afco heat exchanger non-fanned?
Is it 80275NDP ??
I want to order that unit!
Thanks

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by ERdoc

Can somebody tell me the part number of the Afco heat exchanger non-fanned?
Is it 80275NDP ??
I want to order that unit!
Thanks

The part number is an 80280. You can find it here: http://www.281motorsports.com/produc...oducts_id=2228

[Meikol02]

Originally Posted by Barricade

Huh? I did??

Yes, look at the pic of the black Tank... you should recognize Matt's handy work on the lid!

http://store.jpcracing.com/JPC-Racin...ck_p_1708.html