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2005-2009 Saleen Mustang For all S281, S302, H281 and H302 models based on the Ford S-197 Mustang platform, with the exception of the S302 PJ (see below). Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help.

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  #1  
Old 10-04-2014
06TorchRedGT's Avatar
06TorchRedGT 06TorchRedGT is offline
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Default Need Feedback: Saleen 98mm Airbox w/ Hard Plastic Upgrade Tube

Guys ! I happen to be running a Saleen series VI S/C on my 2006 GT which was installed with a C&L racer inlet tube and pipeline 101mm MAF..

The car was already installed with both the S/C and C&L intake when I purchased it, but since I've owned it, I've noticed a few clearance issues with the intake tube rubbing on both the top of the alternator and inner hood..

I was looking into replacing the C&L intake setup for the JLT series 3 which is supposedly designed to fit with a Saleen S/C and the stock hood, however after speaking with several other 05 and 06 owners, they provided some negative feedback concerning hood clearance issues they encountered with the JLT intake..

So after talking with several local tuners, I was recommended to look into running either the Steeda 90mm cold air intake with the stock Saleen rubber inlet tube or find a stock Saleen airbox lid which has a 98mm MAF housing built in along with their upgraded hard plastic inlet tube..

So my question is this.. If I decide to go with the Saleen airbox setup that I just described, will I notice any substantial power and airflow loss due to running an enclosed airbox which is considered as being restrictive when compared to running a cold air intake such as the Steeda 90mm CAI ?

If I do decide to go with the Saleen setup ? Bear in mind that I will be cutting out the bottom section of the stock airbox in order to increase airflow which hopefully will reduce the restrictions of running an enclosed airbox..

In addition, I'll most definitely be getting my car custom tuned regardless of which setup I decide to go with..

In the meantime, I'd be really grateful for any feedback and support in addressing my concerns..

Thanks in advance


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Saleen series VI S/C - 39lb injectors - 3.6" pulley - Eibach pro kit springs - Borla ATAK mufflers - Pypes cut n clamp X mid-pipe to OEM cats - Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Tires 275/40/18" square - GT500 strut mounts - Hurst short throw shifter - CFM billet oil cap breather - UPR 4 chamber catch can - Eibach camber bolts - OEM GT500 18x9.5 wheels - Koni adj sport struts/shocks - BMR poly adj panhard bar - Saleen extreme 98mm stock airbox - Autolite HT0 spark plugs - JDM 91 oct performance tune.
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2014
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The 465hp and above did not use an enclosed airbox. Saleen took the OE Ford lower box and cut the bottom off.
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  #3  
Old 10-04-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
The 465hp and above did not use an enclosed airbox. Saleen took the OE Ford lower box and cut the bottom off.
Dave ! I believe you misunderstood part of what I said in my post..

What I meant by enclosed airbox.. Is the OEM Ford lower box started out as an enclosed box.. That is until Saleen cut the bottom out of it..

However when compared to most air intake kits that use a conical air filter and include open heat shields such as the JLT series 3.. The Ford OEM lower airbox even with the bottom cut out would still be considered as an enclosed airbox to a certain degree..

So my question once again is this.. If I decide to cut the bottom of my Ford OEM airbox and then use the Saleen 98mm airbox top with upgraded plastic intake tube.. Will I have enough airflow going to my engine or will there be an airflow restriction when compared to running a larger cold air intake that uses a conical air filter with an open heat shield ?
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Saleen series VI S/C - 39lb injectors - 3.6" pulley - Eibach pro kit springs - Borla ATAK mufflers - Pypes cut n clamp X mid-pipe to OEM cats - Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Tires 275/40/18" square - GT500 strut mounts - Hurst short throw shifter - CFM billet oil cap breather - UPR 4 chamber catch can - Eibach camber bolts - OEM GT500 18x9.5 wheels - Koni adj sport struts/shocks - BMR poly adj panhard bar - Saleen extreme 98mm stock airbox - Autolite HT0 spark plugs - JDM 91 oct performance tune.
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  #4  
Old 10-04-2014
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The Extreme 550hp & H302 S/C 580hp ran the cut box and plastic elbow. What are you looking to do, above 580hp?
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
The Extreme 550hp & H302 S/C 580hp ran the cut box and plastic elbow. What are you looking to do, above 580hp?
I'm not looking to run above 580 HP.. I just want to know if I would gain more HP and airflow if I went with the JLT series 3 cold air intake that uses a 110mm MAF.

Or am I just fine running the Ford OEM airbox by cutting the bottom out with the plastic elbow and Saleen airbox top with out any airflow restrictions ?
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Saleen series VI S/C - 39lb injectors - 3.6" pulley - Eibach pro kit springs - Borla ATAK mufflers - Pypes cut n clamp X mid-pipe to OEM cats - Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Tires 275/40/18" square - GT500 strut mounts - Hurst short throw shifter - CFM billet oil cap breather - UPR 4 chamber catch can - Eibach camber bolts - OEM GT500 18x9.5 wheels - Koni adj sport struts/shocks - BMR poly adj panhard bar - Saleen extreme 98mm stock airbox - Autolite HT0 spark plugs - JDM 91 oct performance tune.
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2014
RedFire281 RedFire281 is offline
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First, without getting into a long discussion of the relative values of different CAIs and Tunes, suffice it to say that on average, the top brand CAIs and Tunes will produce somewhere between 20-25rwhp (dynoed) and in some instances up to 30rwhp but rarely above that, no matter whose CAI you use. The greater percentage of the gain is in the Tune. The differences between the top tier CAIs, then, are insignificant as to be almost unnoticeable if the MAF housing has sufficient volume to ingest air at a rate that is needed by the engine's induction components. Anything less means some power may be left on the table; anything more is simply spent in the atmosphere (or worse, does not create enough back pressure to push air into the system). And we also know that the cooler the air, the greater the density and the greater density means more air that can be compressed into the cylinders. So, is a 98mm MAF less effective that a 110mm MAF @ 450rwhp supercharged? Probably not. At 580rwhp, maybe. The real issue then is air density. When your car is dynoed, the hood is up and the dyno fans are blowing. This is so that the engine compartment is as cool as possible (air density) to maximize tuning. In the real world, the hood is down and the ambient temperature under the hood is dictated by outside temps and trapped heat generated by the engine. Because air pressure tends to equalize within a space, unless the area within the cone type filter and the heat shield is completely sealed, air density will be the same throughout the underhood area. Justin Starkey at VMP Tuning pioneered testing of different third party CAIs and found that Ford had learned much from the SN95 modders and had developed an amazingly efficient MAF and enclosure for the S197; and that the new stock airbox stacked up well against the third party. The Saleen solution, then, is not very elegant but is very effective. Saleen engineers increased the stock MAF volume to 98mm for the obvious reason. But maintaining the filter enclosure and cutting the bottom has two obvious advantages and one not so obvious but most important. First, the enclosure keeps hot engine temps from leaching into the induction system. Second, the bottom cutout allows more air to enter the induction system to take full advantage of the 98mm MAF volume. And third, the air entering the bottom cutout is cooler air entering from below and in front of the car.

Bottom line, I wouldn't hesitate going with the Saleen solution unless aesthetics was important. The JLT Series 3 will clear the alternator and the heat shield on both the C&L and JLT3 may have to be modded to fit the exact contours of your hood.
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2014
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I have the JLT series 3 air intake and the only issue is a spot about 2 inches wide that rubs the underside of the hood. Couple of ways to fix this IMO, you could get a new K member that has the 1/2 inch lower mounts which will lower everything including the air intake not to mention the other good benefits. You could also bend/cut/modify the small spot on the hood itself, it doesn't look like it would be a concern it just needs flattened out a little bit. Even if left alone its no big deal.
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08-045 S281 SC, Tuned by Pro-Dyno, 3.2 SC pulley, HT0 plugs, JLT series 3 CAI, vacuum upgrade, Kenne Bell BAP, MGW shifter, JBA catted H pipe, Moroso Oil Catch can, '11 mirrors, MMD hood struts, shorty antenna.

01-001 SC, Tuned by Pro Dyno, 2.8 SC pulley, MoSaleen, CAI, Off road X pipe, Mcleod Super Street clutch, H&R Super Sport springs, shorty antenna.
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Old 10-06-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFire281 View Post
First, without getting into a long discussion of the relative values of different CAIs and Tunes, suffice it to say that on average, the top brand CAIs and Tunes will produce somewhere between 20-25rwhp (dynoed) and in some instances up to 30rwhp but rarely above that, no matter whose CAI you use. The greater percentage of the gain is in the Tune. The differences between the top tier CAIs, then, are insignificant as to be almost unnoticeable if the MAF housing has sufficient volume to ingest air at a rate that is needed by the engine's induction components. Anything less means some power may be left on the table; anything more is simply spent in the atmosphere (or worse, does not create enough back pressure to push air into the system). And we also know that the cooler the air, the greater the density and the greater density means more air that can be compressed into the cylinders. So, is a 98mm MAF less effective that a 110mm MAF @ 450rwhp supercharged? Probably not. At 580rwhp, maybe. The real issue then is air density. When your car is dynoed, the hood is up and the dyno fans are blowing. This is so that the engine compartment is as cool as possible (air density) to maximize tuning. In the real world, the hood is down and the ambient temperature under the hood is dictated by outside temps and trapped heat generated by the engine. Because air pressure tends to equalize within a space, unless the area within the cone type filter and the heat shield is completely sealed, air density will be the same throughout the underhood area. Justin Starkey at VMP Tuning pioneered testing of different third party CAIs and found that Ford had learned much from the SN95 modders and had developed an amazingly efficient MAF and enclosure for the S197; and that the new stock airbox stacked up well against the third party. The Saleen solution, then, is not very elegant but is very effective. Saleen engineers increased the stock MAF volume to 98mm for the obvious reason. But maintaining the filter enclosure and cutting the bottom has two obvious advantages and one not so obvious but most important. First, the enclosure keeps hot engine temps from leaching into the induction system. Second, the bottom cutout allows more air to enter the induction system to take full advantage of the 98mm MAF volume. And third, the air entering the bottom cutout is cooler air entering from below and in front of the car.

Bottom line, I wouldn't hesitate going with the Saleen solution unless aesthetics was important. The JLT Series 3 will clear the alternator and the heat shield on both the C&L and JLT3 may have to be modded to fit the exact contours of your hood.
Aesthetics isn't an important factor to me, and if the OEM Saleen solution will provide enough airflow and performance with custom tuning ?

That's more than good enough for me.. As performance is what I value most and after reading your post, The Saleen solution provides the performance I'm looking for and also has the OEM fit and finish to go along with it..

So we know it's going to fit and clear the stock hood without having to do any modifications whatsoever
__________________
Saleen series VI S/C - 39lb injectors - 3.6" pulley - Eibach pro kit springs - Borla ATAK mufflers - Pypes cut n clamp X mid-pipe to OEM cats - Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Tires 275/40/18" square - GT500 strut mounts - Hurst short throw shifter - CFM billet oil cap breather - UPR 4 chamber catch can - Eibach camber bolts - OEM GT500 18x9.5 wheels - Koni adj sport struts/shocks - BMR poly adj panhard bar - Saleen extreme 98mm stock airbox - Autolite HT0 spark plugs - JDM 91 oct performance tune.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msb7144 View Post
I have the JLT series 3 air intake and the only issue is a spot about 2 inches wide that rubs the underside of the hood. Couple of ways to fix this IMO, you could get a new K member that has the 1/2 inch lower mounts which will lower everything including the air intake not to mention the other good benefits. You could also bend/cut/modify the small spot on the hood itself, it doesn't look like it would be a concern it just needs flattened out a little bit. Even if left alone its no big deal.
After reading RedFire281's post.. I'm going to go with the stock saleen airbox for now and if I decide to upgrade later down the road ? I can always upgrade to the JLT 3 CAI at anytime..

As for the new K member ? That's also on my upgrade list down the road as well..
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Saleen series VI S/C - 39lb injectors - 3.6" pulley - Eibach pro kit springs - Borla ATAK mufflers - Pypes cut n clamp X mid-pipe to OEM cats - Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Tires 275/40/18" square - GT500 strut mounts - Hurst short throw shifter - CFM billet oil cap breather - UPR 4 chamber catch can - Eibach camber bolts - OEM GT500 18x9.5 wheels - Koni adj sport struts/shocks - BMR poly adj panhard bar - Saleen extreme 98mm stock airbox - Autolite HT0 spark plugs - JDM 91 oct performance tune.
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